Public Stoning of Teenage girl in Iraq
May 18th 2007 00:55
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Public stonings continue in Iraq
A girl's very public stoning shows 'honor killings' are continuing despite laws against them. CNN's Phil Black reports. (May 17)
Public Stoning
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Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Comment by Nickoftime's Sanity Corner
I am...speechless...what a horrible way to die and what a STUPID reason to have killed her!
Because she fell in love with a boy who practiced the "wrong" religion???
How utterly brutal and monstous...Those men who did that and everyone who stood by and witnessed it should all be prosecuted!!!
Good GOD what is this world coming to????
Take care,
Nick
Comment by Ash
Flashes of memories
That's terrible. Not only taking part in it but actually filming it and doing nothing to help that poor girl.
I don`t even know what to say... how upsetting that is.
ash
Comment by katyzzz
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And we musn't use the word 'primitive' must we?
katyzzz
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Katyzzz, I would say 'primitive' is one of the best descriptions of this behavior. It is a relic of the past, a barbarous practice embedded in a culture that has taken some steps into modernity while, in many ways, staying rooted in the ignorance of their origins. It is sad, and it is tragic. But it is not new, and it is doubtful that such reprehensible and morally outrageous conduct will be erased from that culture anytime soon.
Comment by Ahmed
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It's what happens when the hierachy in a family is skewed and the fatehr is used to having his way. Instead of going after the man he sought the easier target.
In the end this kind of behaviour extends all over the world particularly in some cultures, Greek and Lebanese ones in particular have the ideology of getting married to someone closest, usually a cousin (or thereabouts). I've heard of death threats against a greek girl because she didn't want to go marry her cousin. Theres worse but no need to get into it.
It's crazy but sadly looking at it from their perspectives it's kind of understandable why they behave the way they do. In all honesty the person stoned should have known better, should have known she'd have it coming and should have avoided it happening. Not defending what happened to her, but she should have known better than to get herself in that sort of trouble.
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
The bottom line, regardless of whatever mental leaps you make to render it slightly less hideous, is that this was the result of cultural practices stemming back centuries. And yes, those cultural practices are inextricably linked to religion. It may not be the overriding factor in all cases, but it is certainly a component. To assert otherwise is to put on blinders.
You're correct, there are a number of cultures that have similar views, most of which are in countries where dominating patriarchy is still the norm. The fact that there are cultures that retain odious, ethically repugnant practices does nothing to undercut the heinous nature of these crimes. Destructive behaviors are not rendered more or less "right" by virtue of the number of people participating. Sometimes, wrong is just wrong. Hiding behind a shield of cultural relativism and offering defense of such grotesque behavior only enables it to continue.
Comment by charliesgirl_992000
Histeries, Mysteries and what not
Lifes little slices
Mystical Creativity
i showed this to my daughter and she just stood there in shock. my other two are still sleeping and i will show them too. i just cannot even believe it's allowed. just Horrid!!!
Tammy
Comment by katyzzz
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And we must note it is always the female who is at fault, apparently, nothing happens to the male.
Mysoginists is the right word to use.
And such cold blooded vicious acts resulting in death and considered acceptable because of culture. No, that is not a good argument. NEVER should this type of behaviour be allowed nor witnessed by those who do nothing to help.
katyzzz
Comment by Ahmed
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If it comes off as 'slightly less hideous' because of the fact she could have prevented it happening to her to you then thats your problem, I don't see it as any less 'hideous' that she should have known better.
You're also pretty wrong about the culture, saying 'this culture is evil' is just plain wrong, you know there are far worse (more gruesome) murders in America and other such countries. How about we start looking at them, it's gotten so bad in the US for instance that some extremely gruesome murders are going unreported by the mainstream press because people have actually been desensitized to it.
Don't judge the many by the actions of a few, it's hypocrtical to say the least. That applies to everyone who thinks those people over htere are backwards and the US or Australia is a 'modern' and 'civilized' nation. If were going to judge different people by taking random instantaniated instances of whats happening Australia is extremely backwards for doing what it is to the Aboriginal people and the US is extremely backwards for the continuously high level of crime rate.
I guess since were already desensitized to whats happening in our part of the world we have started getting outraged at whatevers happening wherever else in the world.
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Where to begin? The fact that you feel compelled to defend this act on some level is extremely disturbing. What is it about this that makes you so unwilling to acknowledge that this was an atrocious act sanctioned by a violent, misogynistic culture (or, at least, sub-culture)? It would be equally awful had it been committed in America, Canada, or wherever else. Certainly, the next time a girl is stoned to death in the streets of Boston, I will be the first person decrying that as well. But it simply is not the matter at hand. We are not talking about an event in any of those countries. We are talking about an appalling crime wherein a mob of full grown men stoned a young girl to death while others stood by and filmed the affair as though it were a sporting event. This is not an isolated incident. I'm not saying that all people in the Middle East commit similar crimes, or even that a large minority does. I cannot help if you choose to interpret my statements this way, but that is not what I said. However, you try to make it sound as if this crime is a complete anomaly. Do not try to pretend, even for one moment, that this is the case.
Please, tell me what major crimes are NOT being reported in the US? Considering that nothing sells papers faster than a bloody murder, and nothing draws in viewers to CNN more quickly than a gruesome body count, please, enlighten me about these crimes that no one thinks are important enough to mention. I admit, I'm curious. I'm doubly curious how, if no one reports them, you are aware of these crimes in the first place? At any rate, I'm willing to bet that none of them involve a large group of people stoning a girl to death in the street.
I make it a general rule not to ever let a discussion reach a personal level on Orble, but I'll make an exception here: if you can honestly state that you think this girl should be held responsible for what was done to her, then your moral and ethical judgment is so greatly misaligned that I fear you are incapable of rendering any sort of reasonable moral decision.
Do you really, truly believe that the only reason that people care about this in America is because we're so bored with our own body count that we'd rather stare at someone else's? The lengths to which you're willing to go to cast the blame for this anywhere other than where it belongs is truly astonishing.
Reply if you wish, it doesn't make a difference to me. I've said my piece on this. If you want to continue to defend this and cast blame on the victim, be my guest. In case you, or anyone else, is interested, click here to read more about honor killings in the Middle East. I wish this was not as common as it is.
Comment by Ahmed
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What if you kidnap them torture them for days on end and then kill them?
What if someone was needlessly killed every 18 minutes in the US in any number of ways?
What if children are starving to death in the outback simply because the government and in a broader sense people of this country as a whole don't want to know about it?
What if eh?
You see thats the thing, were easy to get 'outraged' by this one act comitted in a foreign country by one or two people yet it happens in the west just as often if not more often. If anything our culture breeds far more violence than any other culture on the face of earth.
The difference with her case is the fact she could have avoided what happened to her if she thought ahead of herself. That is not a defense, thats fact, and if fact seems like a justification on any level here to you then it is a clear indication that you are reacting to this situation emotionally, not objectively. Which is what is in essense wrong with the world. Emotions seem to run people more than reality. Fantasy worlds and little pink fairies.
Oh the crimes are reported dearest, they just don't make the frontpage news. When someone is raped and then choked to death becomes common place people stop caring, period.
Police Brutality
One of the most brutal murders in US history
Of course theres more, I wonder why none of those make it to the frontpage on CNN. Oh I know, for one thing it didn't occur in a culture that is far off from ours and secondly it's kind of common for anyone to care.
Once again you go back to the aforementioned, I can't help it if you are responding to this matter in such an emotional manner that all manner of reason seems to have left you. All I said was she could have seen ahead and this fate wouldn't have come to her, I did not justify her killing and don't want to at all. You're just too emotional to understand that her shortsitedness did get her to this position and nothing you can say will change that.
No it doesn't happen as often as you might like to think, at least not more often than 'generic brutal murder X' in our oh so civlized society. Not that it matters, in your world it's all pretty pink fairies, where there is no grays between the black and white.
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
Comment by Ahmed
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Little Green Foosballs
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Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
If you are that convinced my response was incoherent and that I must live in an imaginary world then you really should find a way to control your own emotions and read.
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
I feel I have to reply to both of you because I see both sides of the story.
Please remember, these sorts of killings are happening EVERY DAY. I just love how everyone got up in arms about this one because they knew about it, women are being killed in this way every day.
It may be unfair, misogynistic, all that, but it is cultural. Plenty of women live, as Ahmed says, 'avoiding the consequences' they live happily as muslims within their constraints. It is only those that refuse to accept their culture that pay the price.
I am not defending the behaviour, I think it is barbaric. But it has to be put into perspective, this is how they live, their traditions are 100s of years old, they literally do not know any better.
No one can point fingers anywhere - we all live in a brutal world within a culture that raises up barbaric practises.
Remember, every 2 seconds, someone dies in violence and horror. Every 2 seconds people!
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
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I don't kow, maybe I should try to introduce you guys to my step mother, you'll see how women have no rights in Iraq. No really. If the situation wasn't so sad it would be funny.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Anonymous
I don't care what their nationality this is an absolute abomination. These men ought to be ashamed. When men believe that they can use their power to murder a young girl because she did not behave the way that they would want her to behave, this is the worst sort of shameful brutish savagery that exists on the planet.
The fact that there are human beings so devoid of compassion is an evil everywhere, whether it is in the streets of Brooklyn or the streets of Iraq.
Be an example. Love and respect one another. Teach your children.
Comment by Anonymous